Episode Transcript
Auto-Generated by Apple Podcasts Transcribe
Welcome to Nutrition For Mortals, the podcast that says life is too damn short to spend your time and attention worrying about your food choices.
So let's take a deep breath, and then join us, two registered dietitians and friends, as we explore the world of nutrition with a special focus on cultivating a healthy and peaceful relationship with food.
My name is Matt Priven, and I am joined, as always, by my co-host and the best dietitian on planet Earth, Jen Baum.
Hey, Jen.
Hey, Matt.
And just a couple quick reminders.
If you would like to support the show, we do have a Patreon, and we do an extra bonus episode on our Patreon every month.
As always, a portion of our Patreon does go to support The Hunger Project, which is a phenomenal organization.
And then you can always find us on Instagram at Nutrition For Mortals.
We're actually real live dietitians in private practice.
And so always feel free to reach out to us if you or anyone you know has ever thought about working with a dietitian.
And you can find us online at oceansidenutrition.com.
And hey, let me throw another one out there.
Why don't you leave us a nice review on Apple Podcasts?
It makes us feel good, which we like to feel good.
Jen, do you like to feel good?
I love to feel good.
So no negative reviews, please.
I can not tolerate negative feedback, is what I'm trying to say.
All right, so what are we talking about today?
So Matt, today we are going to be talking about set point theory.
And this was actually a listener request.
We had a fellow dietitian reach out to us, suggesting this as a topic.
And I thought this was a great topic for us because we haven't really talked that much about different theories of weight regulation yet on the show.
So what a great one for us to dive into.
Oh, I totally agree.
So body weight set point is what we're talking about today.
So let's bring everybody up to speed here.
What exactly does that mean?
Yeah, that's really important.
So right off the bat here, for those who maybe have never heard this term set point theory before, this is the idea that assumes that everyone's body has a genetically preferred weight range that it tries to maintain.
And so according to set point theory, all human bodies come encoded with a predetermined weight or fat mass range.
So kind of like how we're all kind of genetically pre-dispositioned to be a certain height, set point theory is the same idea except related to body shape and size.
Yeah.
And you know, we do a lot of talking on the show about this role of genetic predisposition for body shape and size, because I think it's largely ignored in the culture in a lot of domains, right?
Like we take it for granted that, you know, some people are really thin and they go, oh, you can eat all day and you never gain weight.
But we don't really tend to apply that the opposite way culturally, where we say, some people are in larger bodies and it's not really correlated with how they're eating in a meaningful way.
Genetic predisposition helps us understand that.
But I understand that's just a piece of it, right?
And so I think this is a really important discussion for us to have today.
So I'm really excited to jump in.
Yeah.
And I will say that set point theory is just one of many theories of how body weight is regulated in humans.
But set point theory really is kind of the first big theory that entered kind of our cultural discourse or cultural knowledge when thinking about theoretical models of weight homeostasis in humans.
Yeah, that makes sense.
And so in today's chat, I'm hoping that we have time to talk about not only the nerdiness of weight science, but also the why here, like why is this meaningful for people?
Because I think a lot of times people feel a lot of pressure to understand their body weight set point or see if they can influence it.
And it really has strong tie ins to diet culture, our relationship with food, how we think about eating and nutrition more broadly.
And so, you know, in today's chat, are we going to have time to kind of get into this why question?
Oh, for sure.
Absolutely.
Because, again, I think, you know, what you said really eloquently, Matt, is that I think this topic particularly can tie in very significantly to how people feel about their body weight.
And so, yeah, absolutely.
We will nerd out at the beginning here and then absolutely have a chat about how theories like set point make us feel generally or day to day.
Perfect.
All right.
So how should we jump into this thing?
OK.
So when I started researching for this episode, I really wanted to understand the history of set point theory.
I wanted to know who developed it.
I was kind of curious, obviously, to understand the research behind it.
And when I started digging around for this information, I almost immediately came across a book that is called The Dieter's Dilemma.
Oh, OK.
I feel like I've heard that before, but I have no nothing about it.
So maybe I haven't.
So tell me about that.
OK.
So this book, The Dieter's Dilemma, it is a book that was written in 1983, so quite a few decades ago now.
And it turns out that this book was written by the two individuals who actually formalized the idea of set point theory.
Their names are Joel Gurin and William Bennett.
They are both nutrition researchers, and William Bennett is an MD.
And so I thought it'd be really interesting to frame the first part of this conversation by going through some quotes from this book just to get a better understanding of the argument for set point theory.
Perfect.
So they formalized it.
Was this a term that existed in like the scientific literature?
Was it written about in papers prior to ’83?
So actually it's interesting because the term set point is actually an engineering term.
In the engineering world, a set point is defined as quote, a parameter or physical quantity that a control system tries to regulate.
So in engineering, this could be applied to temperature or pressure.
But in this case, these two authors borrowed this term from the engineering world and applied it to body size, saying essentially that our body has regulatory mechanisms in place that work together to try to maintain our weight in a specific range.
Oh, okay.
I thought they took it from tennis, but now that makes more sense.
No, it was 100% engineering, not tennis, though, of course, I can see how you made that connection.
Okay, so let's dive into the book.
So 83, The Dieter's Dilemma.
So yeah, what did they share with people?
Okay, as you can imagine, when I came across a book from the 1980s, we're talking a peak diet culture decade, I was pretty nervous about diving into this book.
I had some pretty strong preconceived notions about what this book was going to look like.
I was anticipating some type of ultra restrictive diet based on the idea of set point.
And so you can imagine my surprise when I read this quote on page two.
Would you read this for me, please?
Quote, although the reducing diet is not an effective means of weight control, it has become our modern ritual of self-improvement and self-purification.
And like any ritual, dieting needs a myth to give it meaning.
The central tenet of the diet mythology is that thin people are better than fat people, more beautiful, healthier, stronger of will.
To validate this invidious comparison, it is argued that virtually anyone can, with a reasonable amount of conscious effort, control how fat he or she becomes.
But the best evidence and common experience both contradict this rationalization.
With rare exceptions, dieters lose weight temporarily, and then, despite great determination, gradually regain it.
The mere fact that one diet program after another appears on the best seller list is proof, if proof were needed, that none works for very long.
Yeah, I could see why you were surprised.
That was in a book in 1983.
Wow.
I agree with that today, 40 years later.
Right?
I know.
And you know what's so funny is I could not find any information on these two authors.
Like I found that, you know, William Bennett worked with MIT or worked for MIT for a while.
I could find almost nothing about Joel Gurin.
And so after I read this intro, I was convinced.
I'm like, these two guys, like time travel, back in time to actually write a fairly progressive book about weight and body shape and size.
A weight-inclusive anti-diet time travel machine is exactly what we've been trying to create on the show.
That's exactly right.
And so, you know, it's not like I don't agree with everything in this book, but just props to these two white guys in the 1980s for essentially making the entire theme of this book a case against caloric restriction and fad dieting, because that's honestly what it is in a lot of ways.
And morality around body shape and size.
I mean, they're not just taking on the failings of diets.
They're taking on the values at their center.
And so that's pretty punk rock.
I'm definitely on team Bennett and Gurin here.
Right.
I mean, they even have a chapter that's called fat may not be hazardous to your health.
And so again, so many of the arguments that you and I are on board with, we see in this book.
So again, props to these two.
Absolutely.
As if we're not revealing our bias enough, maybe we should move on with this episode.
I know, I know.
Okay, so in chapter three, the authors get into explaining set point theory and the evidence they have for it.
And the evidence that they provide in the next couple chapters of the book is largely coming from animal models, rat experiments particularly.
So I'm going to have you read this next quote from chapter three of their book.
And this again is going to start to get into the evidence that they provide to support set point theory.
Quote, hunger does accumulate.
There is really no question of that.
Any laboratory rat will demonstrate it.
Take away its rations until the animal loses 20 or 30 grams, then give it free access to food, and it will eat earnestly until it has restored the missing fat.
Satiety also accumulates.
Force feed a rat, and if you give it more than it needs, it will fatten.
When you stop, the rat will eat less than normal until the excess is lost.
So in these types of experiments, essentially what researchers saw is that when they deprived rats of food, those rats would lose weight, understandably.
And then when those rats were given free access to food, they would eat until they regained weight back and vice versa.
So again, if you overfed a rat and then stopped overfeeding it, the rat would adjust its intake and lose weight back to where it started.
So again, these are the types of experiments that they're looking to initially to try to explain set point theory.
And then in Chapter 4, they offer even more rat data to try to provide evidence for set point theory.
So if you would read this next quote, please.
How many quotes am I reading today, Jen?
I'm going to make you read a ton because this is like a get back from some of the weird stuff you make me read.
Okay.
Quote, the experiments were conducted by Jeffrey Peck at the University of Utah.
He began with the collection of ordinary rats, which he divided into groups.
The first group was fed a diet of rat chow mixed with vegetable shortening, a rat's version of New York cheesecake.
These rats grew fatter than normal.
The next group received the usual fare for rats, these animals held to their customary weight.
And the third group was fed rat chow adulterated with a small amount of quinine to make it bitter.
These rats became somewhat lighter in weight than the second group.
After a brief period on their regular diets, the rats all stabilized at their respective new weights.
Now, Peck tried forcing the animals to change their weight to observe whether they would resist.
For example, he kept them all in refrigerated cages for several days.
In the cold, the rats all had to eat more than usual to compensate for the heat they were losing.
While in the cold, all the rats adjusted their food intake precisely to maintain their weight.
Okay, so now they're doing a bunch of funky experiments with rats to figure out what the boundaries are of this set point idea, right?
Yeah, that's exactly right.
I mean, I think what they're trying to do is see how far they can push boundaries to see if, for example, they introduce a rat into an extreme environment, will its weight hold steady?
And what they found in these examples was, yes, their weight did hold steady because rats started to eat more.
So yeah, funky rat experiments.
And you know, I will say that in this book, we have the authors leaning mostly on animal studies to offer the evidence for set point theory.
Now, in the last few decades, there have since been larger observational studies done on humans, some of which have found that individuals tend to maintain a relatively constant weight throughout their adult lives.
And that, along with these animal studies, tends to be the evidence for set point theory that we even use today.
Okay.
I didn't know if we were going to stay in rat studies for the remainder of the episode.
So good.
There's been some observational human studies.
And I think a lot of the research into efficacy of weight loss diets speaks to this as well, right?
Why we see so much difficulty in long-term weight loss amongst people who try restrictive diets because there is this idea of set point that perhaps their body is motivated to return to that homeostasis, right?
That's at least the theory behind the difficulty with restrictive diets, right?
100%.
And I'm glad you brought that up because that is the other category of research that proponents of set point theory often point to.
They look at studies where people, after they have chronically restricted their intake, tend to regain most, if not all of the weight they lost.
And they say, well, you know, look at people's bodies trying to compensate and adjust following this period of restriction.
So yeah, that's another kind of category of study that people often use in support of set point theory.
Yeah.
And so we have this research into people who are putting themselves on restrictive diets.
I wish we had research on like the people who go on our favorite TV show alone, who spend months in the wilderness not eating enough, and then see what their body does over the course of the next year or so.
I don't know.
Maybe you should propose this as a research study, Matt.
Maybe you and I can go do research in the Canadian wilderness.
Oh, I want to go to Patagonia.
That was a good season.
Get at us, History Channel.
All right.
So in this book, The Dieter's Dilemma, they go through some of the research and try to explain this idea of set point theory.
Does the book turn to recommendations or how a reader should be thinking about set point theory as it applies to their own life?
Yeah, they definitely do.
So, I mean, I think what many people even now often want to know is, where is my set point?
If this idea of set point theory is true, how do I go about determining where my set point range is?
And in The Dieter's Dilemma, the authors offer this thought on that particular idea.
Quote, there is yet no safe, practical way to discern an individual set point.
No convenient meter with wires and a dial that might give them a reading.
Measuring changes in metabolic rate or estimating the size and number of fat cells may give some clue, but both of these procedures are elaborate laboratory procedures, and in any case, they aren't really necessary.
Most people can establish for themselves what amount of body fat is natural for them.
It is a stable weight that is maintained without conscious attention, the weight to which one returns after dieting or overeating.
So the big takeaway from this book was essentially the best thing that we can do is to stop fat dieting or using diet pills or falling for the latest celebrity weight loss trick.
Instead, for these two authors, their biggest takeaway is to just focus on physical activity.
And that is really the only thing that may help bring about changes in weight, although they say even that might not affect your set point.
And so I will have you read one last quote that just speaks to their recommendation or their big takeaway from this entire book.
Quote, the form of exercise required to bring about conditioning need not be conspicuously athletic.
What is necessary is continuous exertion.
Breathing and heart rate must accelerate to a level that depends on the individual's age and previous condition for at least 20 minutes at a time.
Whatever form of suitably taxing effort is found, and unfortunately it has to feel like effort to be of any use, it must be repeated fairly frequently to lower fat stores.
Close quote.
Yeah, so this is essentially the big recommendation from this book.
They make the case that Americans are less active because jobs have become more sedentary over the last few decades.
They talk a little bit about overall declines and how much Americans move.
And so that's where these two authors feel the focus should be.
They say, try to move more, that might change your weight some, but your weight is just predetermined.
And so fad dieting and overexercise aren't likely going to change your set point weight.
Okay, cool.
So I think I know what Bennett and Gurin are trying to communicate in this book, like the Dieter's Dilemma now.
But you know, that's 1983.
And just despite their best efforts, they were still 10 years out from FenFen.
So things didn't go their way exactly.
But I'd love to talk about how we kind of talk about set point theory now.
Like what is the role of this idea in the modern discourse around weight balance, but also like how we should think about health behaviors.
Yeah, I mean, that's really important because again, like you said, this book was written 40 years ago, and we are still now seeing this term set point theory very often.
And so at least for me, there are a couple ways that I feel like I see this idea of set point theory appear in our like more modern discourse.
The first is obviously this is not going to be a surprise to anyone, but the first is that there are definitely lots of diets based around set point theory, which is pretty ridiculous given the fact that, as we just talked about, the two people who developed set point theory literally say that restrictive diets don't work in the long term.
But why don't I go ahead and play a clip of an example of how set point theory has been turned into a diet?
Well, the name diet or the word diet is in the title.
The thing that sets the set point diet aside from every other diet that's ever been created is, it is the only protocol that's been designed specifically to reduce the inflammation in your brain, the dysregulation amongst your hormones, and the dysbiosis in your gut that elevates what's known as your set point weight, which is the thing that ultimately determines your long term weight.
So while things like the keto diet, the paleo diet, Atkins, veganism, all of these different diets, they have maybe intentionally or unintentionally stumbled upon one piece of the puzzle to lower your set point.
They have never been engineered specifically to target all three aspects of lowering your set point.
And that's what this protocol does, that nothing else does.
Oh, God, this frustrates me so much, Jen.
I know.
Tell me why.
Why are you so frustrated?
I just feel like this guy is so good at marketing, and this is so effective, this type of play, which is like you base a whole diet or diet book around an idea.
And ultimately, we both know.
I don't know if you read the book or not, but we know his recommendations are not going to be groundbreaking, you know, new.
Different than every other diet out there, like he said in the beginning of that clip.
Yeah, exactly.
But he like earworms you with this idea of brain inflammation.
So you get left with this idea like, oh, okay, my set point is higher than where I'd like it to be because my brain is inflamed.
So I got to read this book now or follow his diet plan.
And, you know, it's just marketing.
Yeah.
Well, and again, like, what a bummer.
Because we have Gurin and Bennett who write this whole book where they make a case against fad diets.
And now we have that very idea being turned into a fad diet.
It is completely frustrating.
Let's think about how else set point theory is getting used in modern culture.
So, I mean, the other ways that I see set point theory popping up, I think that set point theory and metabolism get tied closely together.
So, I see a bunch online about how your metabolism is broken and your set point is therefore broken, and that's why you can't lose weight, or that's why you've hit a weight loss plateau.
Have you heard that before, Matt?
Oh, of course, of course.
Yeah, this is often tied to that idea of plateau, that, okay, you've hit your set point, therefore your weight loss goal is for not, because your body's fighting you at this point, which I think gets used for good reason.
Like, this is one of the nuances about set point theory is, we'll get into some of the things that seem a bit underbaked, but I think that often this idea gets used for very good reason, to discourage restrictive diets or even an eating disorder recovery, right?
So there's a lot of great uses for this idea.
Yeah, you just set me up so well, thank you.
And so I also wanted to play a clip of what I think is a much more non-diet way that set point can be talked about on social media.
I mean, this idea of trying to move away from suppressing your weight chronically via restrictive dieting.
And so let's hear an example of that as well.
There are three ways to tell if you are at your set point weight.
Number one is it's the way you maintain when you're eating according to your hunger and your foam excuse.
Number two, it's the way you're at when you're not fixated on your weight or food rules, aka you're not on a diet, you're not restricting, you're not putting morality to food.
And number three, it's the way that you return at in between diets.
And note that this creeps up the more diets that you do.
And the biggest key here is to not try and find your set point weight or focus on it because you actually have no idea what it is.
Focus on listening and trusting your body, breaking down rules that you have about food, your weight stigmas and stepping out of dieting.
Yeah, I think that's a perfect example of the usage of set point theory, which is trying to encourage people to practice these principles, like connecting to your internal cues for hunger and fullness, like she said, and rejecting this diet mentality that we're all kind of born into.
And so it's very similar to the dieter's dilemma from 40 years ago, but now on TikTok.
That's exactly right.
Well, and I think it's really important to recognize that if you have to over exercise and constantly restrict your food intake to maintain a lower body weight, then this isn't the weight that your body is physiologically comfortable at.
I mean, we have so much evidence that our bodies are going to try really hard to protect us from undernourishment or perceived starvation.
I mean, we have lots of hormonal shifts that will happen to try to encourage us to eat more.
Our energy will decrease as our body tries to keep us from moving around so much.
So, I think we know that chronically suppressing body weight has significant negative physical and mental consequences.
And, you know, I mentioned earlier, this idea shows up in eating disorder recovery as well, because a lot of times when people are engaging in restrictive eating disorders, this idea that we have to get back to where our body feels comfortable from a weight perspective can be enough for folks to commit to nourishing themselves, right?
Trying to take care of their body to get back to a place of homeostasis and comfort.
And so this is an idea that underpins some really important health care efforts as well.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
I think this idea of set point theory can be a real motivator for individuals who are recovering from eating disorders or disordered eating.
And so I actually think that if the idea of set point theory helps somebody feel like it's easier to make peace with nourishing themselves more appropriately or moving away from overexercise, then I think that's a wonderful thing.
And the same is true with what we might call excessive eating or in the eating disorder language like binge eating behaviors or disorder.
The idea of set point can be a promise that really helps people with the healing work that needs to be done as well.
And so, it gets really complicated though, because it leads into sort of what are the values we have around body shape and size and body image.
And yeah, this is a very nuanced topic.
And so, I want to get into those nuances and I want to ask you, Jen, what are the limitations with set point theory?
Like, let's really get into, yes, there's benefits to the idea of it, but what should we be thinking about to kind of give a more full picture to this idea of set point theory?
Well, I think that set point theory is pretty oversimplified.
I mean, quite honestly, because there are multiple theoretical models of weight regulation, all of which are just theories and would be incredibly hard to prove because there are just so many factors that can impact body size.
You know, I think what set point ignores completely are all of these external factors that can impact body shape and size.
Things like if somebody is taking a medication that might increase or decrease their appetite, someone's access to food, someone doesn't have access to enough food, then that's a big external factor that could impact their body size.
How active we are or are not able to be.
Stress levels.
I mean, I could go on and on.
Set point theory really doesn't consider any of these external factors.
Yeah, that makes sense.
There's sort of an incomplete nature to it.
And you know why I love that we're having this conversation is because we're finally talking about the fact that two things can be true at the same time, which I think is so crucial in this conversation, which is we have strong, genetically predetermined phenotypes for body shape and size that play off of our metabolic rate and all these factors that we don't really have a hand on.
But the environment we're in and our lifestyle behaviors are also part of the story.
You know, what, when, how much we eat is all wrapped up in this and our body is going to be influenced not only by genetic factors and predispositions, but also by what we do and the environment we're swimming in.
Right.
And so so many of the conversations, especially online, kind of pick one side or the other.
It's either entirely predetermined or it's entirely free will.
And, you know, not surprisingly, it's somewhere between, which I think is so interesting.
And I think an understanding of this concept really gives us a way to actualize self-care in our personal lives in a sort of kind and measured way.
Yeah.
I mean, I think the other truth is that we honestly don't fully understand how body weight is regulated in humans and sentence.
We have theories, we have set point theory, there's something called settling point theory, but they are all theoretical because the other thing is that weight regulation in humans is super complex, despite what diets like the set point diet would have you believe.
Oh, absolutely.
And just to give a little context, I'm thinking about prior to the 80s, when this term set point theory was in the zeitgeist a little bit.
You know, the idea that predominated was eat more, gain weight, eat less, lose weight.
Calories in, calories out.
Exactly.
Right.
And so, this is a very meaningful addition to our thinking.
But you're making a really good point here.
It's incomplete to ignore the environmental factors.
And ultimately, we don't freaking know.
And there's a lot of actual piece to be found in that, if we can just kind of frame it up the right way.
Yeah.
Definitely piece to be found.
Although I can also see why it's really frustrating too.
I mean, can you see that, Matt?
Like, you and I talked to so many people who just want to understand their bodies more.
They want to have a formula for why their weight may be at a certain point.
And peace can be found.
And I can also understand there is frustration that can come with the not knowing or not completely understanding.
Oh, totally.
Yeah.
Tell me more about the way that this gets expressed to you from clients or people you speak to who express this frustration.
Yeah.
I mean, I think for many people, they want a formula with nutrition, with physical activity.
They want to be able to control their weight.
They may believe that their set point should be lower than where it's actually falling.
And so there are lots of ways that people express to me the frustration or just like feelings of hopelessness because they can't or don't understand exactly why their body may be behaving or reacting a certain way.
Also, I see online a lot this idea of, you know, you need to make peace with your set point or you need to accept your set point, which again, that can be helpful for sure.
For a whole subset of folks, but we also can't forget that we live in a culture that is incredibly fatphobic, that stigmatizes people who live in larger bodies.
And so if your set point falls in a higher range or puts you in a larger body, that can also be a really challenging, nuanced lived experience.
And it encourages this like endless detective work of why is my set point where it is?
What's gone wrong?
How do I crack the code on this?
And these diet books that we like heard that clip from earlier, really try to reinforce this idea.
Your brain is inflamed or whatever, your gut is in dysbiosis or whatever it might be.
And obviously those are entirely unhelpful, but it doesn't end this constant pursuit of understanding what is my set point or what is the body weight regulation secret that's going to help me understand what to do to make my life easier, which is so understandable.
Well, I think the word that you just said that I hear a lot is wrong.
I think people feel like their bodies are wrong.
I think they feel like they've done something wrong or something has gone wrong in their bodies.
And of course, it's so understandable that that feeling could produce lots of other feelings like guilt or shame or judgment.
And so, yes, I think this idea of my body is wrong and I have to fix it.
That's a really tough, challenging thing to navigate.
Yeah, so it kind of leaves people with this feeling of like, well, what do we do about this?
And I take your point.
There's not a lot of research.
I mean, we could go into all these different models of theoretical weight regulation, but I don't think that's really going to serve us.
I'm realizing now that the main utility of this episode is to kind of share our thoughts here on how this is maybe seen in practice.
And so let's settle into a hot take area of this episode.
Is that OK?
Yeah, I'm settled.
OK.
I guess one thing I want to say here is that I do think that largely this is a bit of a distraction.
And what I mean by that is I think people get lost in this endless quest of understanding what's gone wrong and it leads them down all these paths instead of focusing on what we would call weight-neutral health-promoting behaviors, where we just put down this effort to intentionally focus on weight loss.
As hard as that sounds, because we're trying to focus on health-promoting behaviors around food and around movement that are going to take care of our health, both short-term and long-term, even if that does result in body weight changes.
So, you know, that's the weird thing about these weight-neutral health-promoting behaviors is sometimes they do lead to weight loss and sometimes they don't, right?
And the acceptance of that can be really challenging, but it doesn't discount the benefits of thinking about balanced, healthy eating and the wonderful messages that we can understand about nutrition and how we can feel great in all these different domains of our life through physical activity and some of even the recommendations we heard in the Dieter's Dilemma earlier.
And so what bothers me about the Set Point Theory is it's just this endless distraction when I just want to get down to the work with people to feel great and take care of their health, you know?
Yeah, 100%.
I agree with everything that you just said, Matt.
And we're talking a lot this episode about how two things can be true at one time.
I think, yes, it's really important to try to focus on weight-neutral health-promoting behaviors, but we can also, at the same time, acknowledge that having a body is really hard.
End sentence.
Yes.
Having a body that changes over the course of our lives, also incredibly hard and challenging.
So, invitation to do lots of work around weight-neutral health care and health-promoting behaviors, but also a big conversation in there to be had around, you know, having a better relationship with your body and how to accomplish that.
Yeah, that's a really important response because I'm glad you caught that, because a lot of people probably hearing what I said, were saying, oh, yeah, it's nice for you to say settle in to, you know, working on health-promoting behaviors.
But at the end of the day, you know, everyone's experience of body image is so personal, and how they feel about their lived experience is so personal, that there's really nothing that we can say, that's going to be individual advice, certainly.
And I know, Jen, you and I have batted around this idea of talking about body image on the show, and we keep landing at this place where it's like, it is so freaking personal, what could we possibly say about it?
Which is so strange because it's such a big part of our work individually with clients and such a big part of our thinking.
Yet bringing it to the podcast format to talk about the topic of body image, every time we try to do it, we end up sounding like we're giving advice that's going to land with exactly 25% of people listening, right?
For sure.
I mean, I think it is really tricky.
I think the best we can do is to, like you said, encourage health-promoting behaviors, while also recognizing that body image and body image work is super challenging.
And the two things often go hand in hand with each other.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so I guess what I hope for people is after hearing this, they go, all right, when this idea of body weight set point comes up, I'll take it with a big grain of salt and go, all right, yeah, that's a theory.
We don't know everything about it, but how can I take care of myself and whatever that means for you individually?
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, and I guess what we're coming to here is the truth about body weight and body weight regulation is that it's complicated.
It's complex.
We don't fully understand it.
It can be very much tied to our own perceptions of body image.
I mean, that's the truth that it is very, very complicated and nuanced.
So don't sell us diet books if you don't know the answer, people, I guess is my main takeaway.
I mean, should we try to come up with our own formula of body weight regulation?
Can we can we coin our own here?
Oh, geez, like on the spot right off the bat, you want me to like try to name it too?
Yes.
Name a theory of body weight regulation right now.
Go.
Body weight regulation is hard and complex.
I have no idea.
Perfect.
Seal it.
Write a book.
Yeah.
And thanks to our two time travelers who joined the episode today.
And so he was at MIT.
Is he local?
Is he still around?
Someone put us in touch with this guy.
Yeah.
Let's go have coffee with this dude.
All right.
I'll see you, Matt.
All right.
See you, Jen.
Nutrition For Mortals is a production of Oceanside Nutrition, a real life nutrition counseling practice in beautiful Newburyport, Massachusetts, where we provide individual nutrition counseling, both in person and online via telehealth.
Feel free to learn more about our practice at oceansidenutrition.com.
If you want to send in a show idea, you can email us at nutritionformortals.gmail.com.
We're on Instagram at nutritionformortals.
If you're digging the show, tell a friend.
Maybe give us a nice review on Apple Podcasts if you can.
Thanks for listening.
We'll see you next time.
