Episode Transcript
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Welcome to Nutrition For Mortals, the podcast that says life is too damn short to spend your time and attention worrying about your food choices.
So let's take a deep breath, and then join us, two registered dietitians and friends, as we explore the world of nutrition with a special focus on cultivating a healthy and peaceful relationship with food.
My name is Matt Priven, and I am joined as always by my co-host and the best dietitian on planet Earth, Jen Baum.
Hey, Jen.
Hey, Matt.
And just a quick reminder, if you would like to support the show, we do have a Patreon where we do an extra bonus episode every month.
A portion of our Patreon does go to support The Hunger Project, which is an amazing organization.
And you can always find us as real live dietitians in private practice on our website, oceansidenutrition.com.
Absolutely, you can.
So today, we are joined by a third dietitian, correct?
Oh, yes.
We have become even more powerful on this show by bringing in another dietitian.
We are multiplying.
That's right.
We're everywhere.
So tell us about our show today.
We are very lucky today to be joined by Shana Spence, who is a registered dietitian.
She is also the creator of the incredibly popular Instagram account at The Nutrition Tea, where she shares simple, impactful, evidence-based nutrition content.
Shana works in the public health space.
And as if all of that wasn't enough, she has just published her first book called Live Nourished, which is focused on helping people both reject diet culture and heal their relationship with food.
And so I am so excited that we got to spend some time with Shana talking about a whole host of different ideas and topics.
Yeah, we got to cover some topics that we really haven't touched on the show much in the past, like healthism and social determinants of health, and just the intersection of privilege and social media, right?
So we really got into some interesting topics today that I'm excited to get into.
Yeah.
And so, Matt, should we just dive right into our conversation with Shana?
Let's do it.
So Shana, thank you so, so much for joining us on the show today.
We are so excited to have you.
Thank you, thank you so much for having me.
Your Instagram content is just fantastic.
I mean, we talk about social media on the show all the time, and both Matt and I feel like your content really stands out in the anti-diet space.
I mean, you are creating such focused content.
It's just really a breath of fresh air in the social media space.
Oh, thank you, thank you so much.
Yeah, that means a lot because I know that there's a lot of content out there.
So thank you.
And so we thought, I mean, one of the ways we thought about structuring this episode today is because you are such a master of social media.
We have pulled some social media clips together and we thought it would be really fun to play some of the clips that we chose and then have some conversation about these clips and hopefully touch on some of the key themes in your book that stood out to us.
So if you are game, we are just going to kind of maybe jump right in and play some clips and then just have some good conversation.
Yeah, that sounds great.
So this first clip is from an influencer in the health and fitness space who is sharing her feelings about the excuses people make that keep them from getting moving and getting into workout and eating routines.
“No more excuses, it's time to get into action.
Have you ever said this?
I don't have time.
This one blows my mind and I hear it all the time.
I don't have time to do this, I don't have time to do that.
But at the end of the day, we all have the same 24 hours.
Every single one of us, whether we are super successful or we're not, we all have the same 24 hours.
And it is what we do with those 20 hours that makes a difference in our lives, right?
It is how we prioritize our health and what we do to be able to work towards the goals that we do with our lives.”
I love how bothered you look by that clip, Shana.
Our audience is not going to be able to see you, but just watching your face.
It drives me.
Yeah, it just, oh my gosh, I hate that rhetoric so much because it just comes from such a privilege mindset.
Yes, we technically, yes, we all have the same 24 hours, but we don't have the same exact 24 hours.
Like we all have 24 hours in the day.
There are 24 hours in the day, but they're not the same.
It's so funny because I don't know if you guys have seen that like, I forget what the saying was, something like, well, Beyoncé has 24 hours in the day, so she can make it happen, why can't you?
Or like throw in any celebrity.
Different people have different lifestyles.
Some people are working multiple jobs.
Some people have families.
Some people, we all don't have the same financial resources or accesses, so saying something like that is super privileged.
And it's also seeped in my favorite word, healthism.
You know, just saying like you're making excuses.
I know I have like a physical, like visceral reaction when I hear that, because I still can't believe people are saying that.
You know, it's like, wow, it's 2024, come on.
So talk a little bit more about healthism, because that is not something that we have talked yet a lot about on the show.
And that is one of the aspects of your book that I really loved that you focused on.
And so talk a little bit more, maybe about healthism and what that means, especially in the nutrition space.
Sure.
So healthism means that we are placing the blame on the individual.
And it's really saying, well, you have this problem, but it's your job to fix it.
The onus is on you.
And we're not really looking at the system in place.
We're not really looking at systemic barriers.
We're just telling the person or the individual, well, if you have this issue, you should be able to solve it.
I think it also stems from such an individualistic mindset because of how society is.
We're kind of told that you should be able to kind of pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and be able to make things work.
And if you're not doing that, you're not trying hard enough.
And I think that's a huge problem because we're not really looking at different resources that some folks don't have.
There are lots of barriers put in place that make things impossible.
You know, I live in New York, and I think that when we think of a place like New York or any large city, we think of lots of stores, right?
Like a densely populated city.
But I don't think people realize that even here and in many places across the United States, there are so many food deserts.
And even where I work, I'm placed throughout the city, but sometimes a grocery store isn't until maybe a couple miles away.
And even when there is like somewhere where you can buy food, it's a bodega.
So it's not really the same type of produce that you would generally want, as in like fresh foods.
But, you know, not that canned foods are bad, but I think that people think that things are just readily available to everybody, and they're not.
I don't want to say people don't care.
I know some people might not.
I'm trying to see the good in folks.
But I think that saying, you know, we all have the 24 hours.
It's really up to you to fill in that time appropriately.
I think that that's just such an elitist take.
So I don't think that people realize maybe how it comes across.
I'll say that.
Yeah, I think about a clip on social media like that.
You post a clip like that, it goes out to everybody.
And so one person is seeing it's going to be a 20 year old with some money in the bank from their parents in college.
They've been scrolling on TikTok for six hours and they're like, yeah, no more excuses.
I'm going to go work up a sweat.
This is great.
Thanks for the tip, lady.
And then someone else who sees it is like a low income single parent who has a chronic health condition that's taking all of their time and doesn't have access to a wide variety of foods or safe places to work up a sweat, right?
And so I think you're really speaking to the fact that in these social media environments, the way we try to motivate others is not going to land for everybody.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And that's that's super important to realize because those are two completely different situations and lifestyles.
And I'm sure that that's motivational, like you said, to somebody.
So yeah, you know, I could work out because there's nothing.
I just want to make it clear.
There's nothing wrong with working out.
Like, you know, it's good.
But we need to make sure we have safe environments, access to things.
There are many environments that not a lot of people feel welcome in either.
So we have to think about those types of situations as well.
So it's important to think about.
Well, I think it's also important to think about how it can make people feel very bad about themselves, if they aren't using the hours in the day, the way that we're told to on social media.
It has the real potential to make people feel like they're not doing nutrition right, or not doing fitness correctly.
And that to me just has the potential to make a whole subset of people feel really badly about themselves, even though they may be doing the best that they can with those 24 hours.
Exactly.
Yeah, I just, I think that sometimes that's sort of lost in translation when we're listening to rhetoric like that.
So, Shana, the next clip that I want to play is going to be from Bobby Parrish.
We have not yet played him on the show, and we can't believe that because he is such a character.
He is typically out there on social media, screaming in Costco about what foods you should never put into your body.
And so, let's jump into a clip where Bobby Parrish is talking about some yogurt.
Sounds good.
“Yogurt is supposed to be gut-friendly, but I would argue it's actually the opposite for many brands.
Raspberry yogurt sounds good, but with 17 grams of added sugar, which is over four teaspoons, that's not very gut-friendly.
So between the sugar and the lack of bacteria, where's the healthy part of yogurt?
The answer is there are some good yogurts.
They don't have added sugar, have good quality bacteria, and if you come to Sprouts now, you can get Noah's Coconut Cult, which have the strongest, most effective probiotic bacteria that actually survive your tummy acids.
It's the real deal.
That's the whole point.”
Okay, so before I let you respond, Shana, I just need to put this out here, that a 16-ounce jar of Coconut Cult yogurt that Bobby Parrish is pushing at the end there with his buddy Noah is $36.
Oh, my God.
$36 for 16 ounces of yogurt.
I mean, this yogurt better be like gold-plated if I'm going to eat this yogurt.
And it's not.
It is not.
Let's just put that out there.
It is not.
Oh, my gosh.
I would like to know how much stock he has.
Because, you know, I mean, he doesn't just say his favorites for nothing now.
So I would really love to know how much.
I think he has, does he have his own brand of stuff as well?
Like, I feel like every video, there's always don't eat this, but you should eat this instead.
And then when you do a deeper dive, it's something his product or like something he has stock in.
So I'm sure that coconut, I forget the name, tastes delicious.
Coconut cult?
Yeah, it is a literal yogurt cult that you have to join.
Thank God.
That just made me crack up, because of course.
Of course.
But yeah, like, I don't know.
I think that sometimes, and this is kind of his thing, right?
Like Bobby's thing, he will walk around, you know, pointing out different things and saying what's wrong with them.
Now, as far as like the sugar content, sometimes there's nothing wrong with paying attention to the sugar amount in our foods.
I will say that for sure.
But at the same time, I think when you're talking about don't eat this, eat that, that's when things get a little bit lost in translation.
Like, instead of saying, oh, this has a lot of sugar, maybe you can buy the unsweetened version, right?
There's usually a plain version and put in your own fruit or something like that.
He goes directly to the $36 option.
A lot of people can't afford that.
I definitely cannot.
Even if I could, I cannot fathom spending that much on yogurt.
And the thing is that these are the types of messages, as we were discussing earlier, where people feel bad.
You know, they're thinking, wait a second, if I can't find $36 to spend on yogurt, do I not care about my health?
Am I not making good choices for myself and my family?
And that's sort of where the guilt comes in, because you're having these two people in a grocery store telling you, oh, you chose that yogurt.
Well, unfortunate for you, bad choices there, because this one right here is the one that you should opt for.
Well, and don't you think it also plays into another common narrative that I feel like I often see in the nutrition space, which is expensive is better.
If you're paying more money for something, it is automatically better for you and has more benefits.
And there are always more health claims around products like that.
For sure.
I always say, and this is the thing, wellness to me, it could go in such a different direction, but for some reason, we choose to make it so elitist.
And we don't have to.
It doesn't have to be in this direction, because there definitely seems to be this correlation where the more money I spend, the better health status I should attain.
And that's simply not true.
You don't have to go broke in order to do what you do best for your own body.
I'm going to say that, because not everybody has the same needs.
For some reason, we definitely do believe the more money we spend or the more expensive a product is, the better it is for us.
And that's simply not true.
For example, you could, if you had time in your 24 hours, make yogurt at home for very little money.
That would be wonderful.
You don't have to do coconut cults, 30 whatever dollars worth of yogurt, but they sell you on fears.
And you're absolutely right that we associate wellness, especially with spending a lot of money.
It has to do with those systemic problems, right?
Because let's say you have $10 million.
You are in a whole other world of health and wellness.
You're not at a grocery store if you have $10 million.
That's right.
That's a business, yeah.
Exactly, exactly.
And you get all your food delivered to you.
You don't even have to think about it.
It's all cooked for you.
And you have your home gym and your personal trainer.
And suddenly, yeah, your 24 hours looks pretty empty.
You have a lot of time that you're able to buy back.
And I mean, I think that's wrapped up in the same story of spending a lot of money on food.
It's a sign of privilege, but it's also not necessary.
We don't need to, like you're saying, spend this epic amount of money on yogurt.
And the reason that people do it is because Bobby scared the shit out of them that they're choosing the wrong yogurt.
Exactly, yeah.
It's like, look at all this sugar.
And I forget if he said something, oh, the probiotics in it, I think he also mentioned or something like that, or they're all dead, it's bad for your gut.
We don't have to do that.
We really don't have to go to the.
And gut health, I think it's also praying, like you said, on the fears, especially now gut health seems to be like the in thing, like that people are looking at as far as health concerns.
I think that a lot of times when we're talking about stomach issues or GI issues, I always say, are we looking at the stress of people?
Are we looking at like the lifestyles?
Because everyone thinks it's always the food.
And I'm not saying it's not, I'm just saying stress also messes up our gut health.
And so like, are we thinking about that as well?
You know, if we're scaring somebody, what is that doing to their internal gut health?
So it's just very interesting.
Well, Matt and I talk about this all the time, is that you have to take into consideration stress when we think about how is somebody feeding themselves.
Because if choices are causing someone to feel more stress, then that stress can definitely create this feedback loop where they might not feel as well overall.
And if you are pushing your budget, like Matt just said, to buy $36 yogurt, and that is then causing you stress, then is that healthy?
Like, you're not going to convince me that that's a healthy choice.
Not at all.
And that's why wellness, I feel as though it can go in such a different direction, but we choose to make it so elitist.
Well, you've mentioned a couple of times that we could go such a different direction with health and wellness.
What's your vision?
Yeah, I think we make it, and when I say we, I mean society.
I think we make it so expensive, like $36 yogurt or even just expensive boutique classes.
Like I was looking online the other day, like those Pilates or bar classes, sometimes are like $40, $50 per class.
And I think that wellness has a place, like doing the exercise or movement that you do.
But I don't think it has to be the $50 class.
Like I think it could be if you live in a safe environment, going outside, going for a run, or maybe having like free weights in your basement or whatever.
It doesn't have to be that expensive elitist take.
And I think that's what I mean where I say, we can make it so many different things, but we're choosing to make it so expensive.
Because wellness to me is just what you're doing as an individual to better your individual health.
Yeah, I mean, I think it sounds like what you're saying is that wellness can look different for different people, depending on a variety of different factors.
And I think Matt and I would agree with you 100%.
I don't think there's like one right way to do movement.
There's not one right way to do food or nutrition.
But that's not the messaging that we're fed most of the time.
We're typically told that there is only one right path if we want to optimize, right?
Which is a word that I hate.
Oh yeah, that's right.
That's the narrative that we're fed.
Yeah, yeah.
And to some, that would be $36.00 yogurt.
Right, that's right.
To optimize our health, yeah.
But then for other families, like wellness is free lunch at school, like just nourishment, you know?
And so there's such a huge divide between the concerns of people based on where they are in their life.
Yeah, and I think free lunch, that's definitely a thing that we're hearing about a lot more just because so many states now or want to take it away and don't think it's necessary.
And then you have parents who don't think that the lunch being served is the greatest option.
And, you know, I tell people this because I have a background in public health.
You are allowed to question things.
You are allowed to, you know, it's your child, it's your family, you're allowed to have concerns.
However, most of the time, the folks who need the free lunch or the free breakfast at some schools, that's where they're getting their meals from.
And I think that we need to be more mindful of saying, well, just do away with it because it's not helping anybody.
I'm just going to say this, we need calories in order to survive.
People need food.
Sometimes I feel like the arguments about school lunches also can stem in like an elitist take because when you hear, well, what would you like the children fed?
Well, why can't we have like kale salads?
Or like, you know, I mean, who's going to eat?
What child is going to eat a kale salad?
You know, like things like that.
It also stems from sometimes an elitist take.
So I think sometimes we just need to be more mindful of what we say.
You are allowed to have concerns.
You are allowed to question things, of course, but I think we need to be more mindful of what we're saying.
Especially because, you know, some people listening would be like, well, the kids in Sweden like kale salad.
It's like, yeah, the kids in Sweden have like a social structure and a governmental structure that has allowed them to like kale salad by the age of eight.
Like there's structural issues here that you can't just throw a kale salad at somebody who's never seen it before and expect them to enjoy it.
Yeah, I, you know, it's so funny because whenever we're compared, which is all the time, we love to compare ourselves to Europe.
And I'm like, that is like comparing apples to oranges.
We are not in the same realm as Europe.
They actually are very mindful of, you know, giving their workers and their people a quality of life and a work-life balance.
We don't have that here.
And I think that's something that maybe we should be more mindful of.
Even like you said, I'm sure that they are serving kale in some places.
I'm sure it tastes delicious, but, you know, we can't really just do what they're doing over there just because it sounds great.
Like we have to look at our own system.
Well, and to your point, Shana, I would say also that if the choice is a child not having enough food or having a school lunch that doesn't include a kale salad, I would 100% want them to have a lunch that doesn't have the kale salad.
I mean, no question that a nourished child is always going to be my pick.
100% agree.
I always say fed is best for everybody.
I know we use it for babies, but we should be using it for everybody.
Fed is best.
Okay, so the next clip that I want to play is going to actually have somebody who is making a pretty healthified version of a tortilla.
And I don't think she says the ingredients, so I'm going to say them.
The ingredients of this tortilla are eggs, baking powder and some type of nut milk.
So let's dive into that one.
"These zero carb tortillas are made with three ingredients.
They're nut free, coconut free and cauliflower free.
Go sweet, go savory, the possibilities are endless.
They're paleo, keto and even SIBO friendly.
Make burritos, tacos, quesadillas.
Get creative.
They're so easy to make and come together in minutes.
And did I mention they're super high in protein?”
This feels like AI.
I don't know about you guys.
Yeah, this is not real.
Is this real?
Matt, will you, before Shana responds, will you just describe this tortilla since our listeners aren't going to have a visual?
Yes, this is a brown, thin, flimsy, almost crepe-looking tortilla.
I hesitate to even use the word crepe or tortilla.
So let's call it a wrap.
How about that?
Okay, okay.
And I will just say that the comments section in this video are everything because people are outraged.
People are just like, that is a pancake, madam.
That is not a tortilla.
It's so funny because I could just tell when she was making it.
Like she thought she was doing something so profound.
And it's like, no, this has been done before.
This has been done before.
I don't think it's ever been called a tortilla.
Listen, I don't want to, you know, yuck somebody’s yum as I say to the kids I work with, but you know, sometimes again in this world of wellness, we have these cultural foods that people will distort.
And this person wasn't the only one to do this.
Like I've seen this a lot with videos where you will have different cultural foods and they want to make it healthier.
You know, implying that a cultural food isn't healthy.
So there's so many different layers to this.
The issue that I really have is calling it a tortilla.
And I don't think this person did it on purpose.
I will say that.
I just think that we're so used to taking a cultural food and saying, I can make this healthier.
And I'm going to still call it a tortilla, even though it's not.
That's now just an egg wrap.
So that's really actually the main problem I have with this is the name and the implication.
So for somebody for whom a tortilla is like a really important part of their culture, how do you think a video like this, and again, I agree with you.
I don't think there was like an intentionality behind appropriating the word tortilla by this individual.
But how do you think that it could impact somebody who for them tortillas are like a very important part of their culture and they really like traditional regular either like corn or flour tortillas?
Yeah, whenever I post on cultural foods, I always get fun comments.
You know, it's interesting because a lot of those comments are from people who come from various cultures and they will always say, well, I don't mind if someone does this, like it doesn't affect me.
And I always say, that's great for you, but think about other people.
Again, we have that individualistic mindset.
There is actually a study, I don't remember the year, I know I put it in my book, but there was a study on Mexican-American women and how they view cultural foods or their cultural foods.
And they all felt that their cultural foods were not healthy because they're coming into a society such as, you know, this one talking about, let's instead of the flour or corn tortilla, we're gonna use eggs to make it healthier.
And there's that implication, oh, my foods are unhealthy, I'm unhealthy.
That's simply not true.
I think that maybe we don't realize the significance of that.
When we're trying to talk about swapping, like swapping out ingredients, it seems like such a nonchalant thing, but it does have its effect.
So I always say, it's your body.
If you need to swap out an ingredient for health reasons or for an allergy, that's fine.
No one's saying not to.
But how you're phrasing this new creation you've come up with is something to think about, is something to be more mindful of.
You know, calling this a healthy tortilla, that's sort of the issue I have with it.
Because you can say, if you need something higher in protein, if you need something nut-free, gluten-free, or whatever, that's fine.
But implying that a regular tortilla isn't healthy is a problem.
Yeah, and since we're three dietitians chatting, we should say carbohydrates are good for you.
That's not the unhealthy part.
Yeah.
We love carbs.
Have your tortillas.
We love carbs.
What do you think, Shana, what do you think about, I mean, there's just such a trend of healthifying foods.
Cauliflower rice, zoodles, we see these like, you know, egg tortillas.
And I just feel like, again, this is something that comes up over and over.
What are your general thoughts about this kind of chronic push to always healthify foods?
People forget this.
It's okay for food to taste good.
And I will say this, if you need to healthify something or exchange something for a medical reason, that's different.
But always feeling the need to swap out an ingredient to make things healthier, that's where we need to rethink things.
You know, are you really enjoying it?
Is cauliflower rice the same thing as regular rice?
I don't think so.
You know, and rice is something that many cultures, like rice, potatoes, like, that's a staple in so many cultural foods.
So to replace it with cauliflower, just because we don't have to do that, we don't have to do that.
So we can have rice, we can have pasta.
There's ways to eat it.
And it's okay that it tastes good.
You know, I think sometimes people get scared or something when their food tastes good, like, oh, it must be unhealthy.
Like, no, food is supposed to taste good.
Shana, you had a post on Instagram that I liked so much a couple months ago that I screenshotted it and texted it to Jen and I said, this is a good take.
And you said you were holding some green beans that you had cooked and you said, nutrients and hyper palatability can coexist quite happily.
Yes.
I thought that was so well said.
And I think you were kind of alluding to it there.
Talk to me a little bit more about that idea that nutrients, nutrition, nutrient packed foods can co-exist with hyper palatability.
And I love that you used that word.
Talk to me about that.
Yeah.
People are scared of that word.
People throw around food addiction or so if you like something too much, you must be addicted to it.
And I always say no, it's okay for food to taste good.
And when we make food, we're afraid of using a lot of seasonings, you know, even cooking things in oil or things like that, because we're trying to save on really taste.
And I think that sometimes we have to realize food is giving us a benefit, right?
Anything we eat.
And I know, and yes, I'm using the word anything here because sometimes even if we're looking at sugar, right?
Sugar is definitely a scary thing for some people, but we need to really remember that every food is giving us some benefit.
And that benefit can also be for our taste buds.
That benefit can be joy.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
Like the string beans are, you know, I think I remember the recipe.
I haven't cooked it like that in a while.
But making vegetables taste good.
Like, yes, I'm getting the nutrients from the green beans, but I'm also making them taste good.
So those two components can coexist.
Yeah, it's not a very American culture thing to do to make vegetables taste good.
I know, it's like steamed or, yeah, flanged and that's it.
Yeah.
Okay, so I want to play one more clip for us to talk about.
And so let's dive right into it.
“You know, at the end of the day, losing weight is literally all about just picking the better option.
For example, instead of going out to lunch today to have a cheeseburger and a piece of pizza or whatever your normal routine would be, just choose a healthier option, guys.
Here, I have a nice mixed salad that I did at home.
Just don't forget to add a good lean protein source.
My lean protein source of choice for this salad is just a bunch of grilled chicken breasts.
As you guys can see here, I just chop it up really small so that that way it's kind of bite size and I toss it in my salad.
It's perfect.
Instead of using just regular ranch dressing, go get yourself some fat-free ranch dressing or whatever fat-free dressing that you want to use.
I know it sounds too easy or too good to be true, but I promise you guys, this is the easiest thing you could ever do in your entire life.”
So easy.
So easy.
Just make better choices, Shana.
Just make better choices.
It was right there all along.
Who knew salad existed?
I love how this guy feels like he discovered salad.
He's like, I know about this thing called salad.
And it's just like such a da thing.
He's like, just make better choices.
Right.
You're right.
That type of mentality is just so transparent.
Like it comes through in so many posts that I see, like kind of going back to the healthism type of thing.
And it's so easy.
You're just not making the right choices.
You, meaning again, it's your responsibility.
You're not making the right choices.
And I think we're coming full circle now.
And it's sort of mind blowing because when we're talking about, you know, something like weight loss or, you know, diets, it's really, again, the onus on the individual.
You must be doing something wrong.
You must be doing something wrong.
One, we do also forget about, you know, little body diversity.
Like I think that people, again, are trying to restrict themselves into a certain aesthetic.
That's not their natural aesthetic, I will say that.
But at the same time, I think that there's so much oneness on, well, you're doing something wrong, you're not trying hard enough.
And we're not looking at, again, barriers put in place.
We're not looking at the access to things, individual preferences, you know.
What did you say?
A grilled chicken on a salad?
It's like, great.
I love that for you.
But let's see if everyone has access to that, you know.
Not to mention, is that all he's eating?
I don't know.
But it's sort of implied, well, I'm doing this and it's working.
I don't know what's wrong with you.
That's sort of the message.
I'm doing this.
I don't know what's wrong with you.
Is social media.
You just summed up social media.
That's perfect.
You're the problem.
How do you use social media?
As somebody who posts a lot and has a large following on there, how do you think about using social media in general?
Do you have recommendations you give people?
I'm the worst, honestly, because I don't have a plan or strategy.
I honestly just post whatever comes to mind.
But as far as me taking it in, like taking in content, I'm very mindful of people I follow.
And I have unfollowed even fellow dietitians, because sometimes I'm like, did we?
Why are we saying this?
Like, what's happening here?
Because I don't want to consume that content.
You know, I'm not on there all the time as well, because it is, it can take a toll on your mental health.
So I'm very mindful of the information I'm taking in.
I am posting a lot because I think it's important to get the information out there, especially information like healthism, social determinants of health, because I don't see that a lot.
So I think that I should be posting about that.
But as far as myself taking in information, I would say I'm actually very intentional.
Is it hard being in the nutrition social media space as somebody who has like a large following?
Yeah.
And it's so bizarre because I actually limit my comments because I just, there are people that I choose not to hear from.
I will say that.
So I actually limit my comments, which I know is like a faux pas in social media, but it's something that I do for my mental health as well.
Because I will say something and I get that not everyone will agree with me.
I'm not saying everyone should agree with me, but as far as the jabs that people will take, it's really something someone will just say, you should go back to school or where did you get your degree from?
It's like, I'm not making these things up.
You can Google healthism, Google is free.
It's not like I made up that word.
I promise you I do not make up that word.
It's actually out there.
I'm just bringing it to your attention.
So Shana, as we move towards the end of our conversation, I am totally going to put you on the spot and ask you one last question before we talk a little bit about your book.
But obviously we are big on the show with doing a lot of debunking in the world of nutrition.
And so, if you had supreme power and you could put one nutrition myth to rest forever, what would it be?
And again, I know I'm totally putting you on the spot here.
Yeah, no, but I think that for sure, one thing that I keep seeing time and time again is this fear mongering of processed foods.
And I think we're becoming just scared of the word process.
And my goal, I hope to achieve it one day, is just to make people realize that the word process doesn't have to be scary, right?
Process can be enriching, fortifying vitamins and minerals.
There are different levels of processed foods.
I think we need to start looking at the way something's processed instead of just being scared of the word.
My goal would be to debunk saying that processed foods are bad for us.
Like we really need to start listing the actual food, not just saying the word process, because the word process means so many things.
So that is my goal that I probably won't achieve in this lifetime, but it's a goal anyway.
It's a good goal though.
It's a good goal.
So Shana, you had your first book come out in August.
And so will you tell us a little bit about it?
I mean, both Matt and I were lucky enough to have a sneak peek.
We were both able to read it, but I would like to hear a little bit from you.
I mean, what I loved about the book is that you not only talked about an anti-diet approach to food, you not only talked about having a healthy, happy relationship with food, but you brought in a lot of important concepts like healthism, like social determinants of health.
And so talk a little bit about your book, talk a little bit about how it was writing your first book as a dietitian.
Yeah, it was a little bit scary.
I will say that because there's so much that you want to say and there's so much that you want to talk about and a book can only be so many pages.
And also the non-diet space is very important to me.
I think that, you know, like I said, all foods have a place.
I think sometimes we get so wrapped up in this restrictive mindset when it comes to food and we don't have to, we don't have to.
And I don't think that it's helping anybody except the weight loss companies or diet companies.
I don't think it's actually helping anybody, the mindset that we have.
So I wanted to really write this book, but I also wanted to make it inclusive because I haven't seen that a lot in the mainstream because I have a background in public health, actually currently work in public health, my nine to five.
So I really wanted to add a voice to that, to add a voice to the social determinants of health, the socioeconomic barriers, racial barriers, right?
Because even as a black dietitian, there's not even, I think there's barely 3% of us out there.
So I wanted to bring in that aspect as well.
Even though I think that the non-diet books and the non-diet dietitians, I mean, of course, we're all fighting uphill battles, you know, in our own way.
But I think that it's important to be also inclusive to other voices.
What is the best way, if people wanted to check out your book?
Where can they find it?
How can they access it?
We're going to include a link in the show notes as well.
But where can people find your book?
Definitely, wherever books are sold.
And even libraries, I know that some people are so excited because they're like, I got it from the library.
I'm like, great.
But really, wherever you normally buy books, you can find it there or request it, which is good too.
And it's also available in audiobook.
Oh, that's great.
Well, congrats on the book.
Shana, thank you so much for joining Nutrition For Mortals and talking to us today.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you so much.
This was so much fun.
Nutrition For Mortals is a production of Oceanside Nutrition, a real life nutrition counseling practice in beautiful Newburyport, Massachusetts, where we provide individual nutrition counseling, both in person and online via telehealth.
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